Did Adam argue from destiny against Moses to excuse his sin?

هل احتج آدم على موسى بالقدر لدفع الملام عن الذنب؟

The two Sahihs relate the debate of Adam and Moses, ending 'So Adam prevailed over Moses'. Ibn Taymiyya says many took it that Adam argued from destiny to deny blame for his sin, and so split into three parties: one rejected the hadith, such as Abu Ali al-Jubba'i; one interpreted it in ways he holds unsound; and one made it a proof that sinners are free of blame. His own view is that the argument concerned the calamity, not the sin, since Adam had already repented and been forgiven.

Depth

At a glance

Contested: This record includes matters on which scholars differ. The speaker's views are labelled as his, and other views are marked where no cited source yet exists.

CreedProphetsSects and schools

Summary

In the Book of Destiny of Majmu' al-Fatawa there is a section by Ibn Taymiyya on the Prophet ﷺ's words "So Adam prevailed over Moses" when Adam argued from destiny against him, in which he holds that this concerned calamities, not sins. 1 He gives the hadith from the two Sahihs on the authority of Abu Hurayra (may God be pleased with him): Adam and Moses argued, and Moses said: you are the father of mankind whom God created with His hand, into whom He breathed of His spirit and before whom He made His angels prostrate – why did you bring us and yourself out of the Garden? Adam said: you are Moses to whom God spoke and for whom He wrote the Torah – how long before I was created do you find written in it the report of my disobedience (Ta Ha 121)? He said: forty years. And so Adam prevailed over Moses. He adds that it is also narrated through Umar ibn al-Khattab (may God be pleased with him) with a good chain. 1

Three parties

Ibn Taymiyya says that many people supposed Adam argued from prior destiny to deny blame for his sin, and because of this supposition split into three parties: 1

  • One party rejected the hadith as false, such as Abu Ali al-Jubba'i and others, since it is known of necessity that making destiny an excuse for the sinner contradicts what the messengers brought; the editors identify al-Jubba'i in a note as one of the imams of the Mu'tazila, born in 235 and died in 303 AH. 1 2
  • One party interpreted it in ways Ibn Taymiyya holds plainly unsound: that Adam prevailed because he was Moses' father and a son does not blame his father; or because the sin was under one law and the blame under another; or because the blame came after repentance; or because this is a matter in which this world and the next differ. 2
  • One party made it their mainstay for dropping blame from those who oppose the command of God and His Messenger, but could not apply this consistently in their daily lives, so some used it for their own desires and not for those of others; of such people it is said, "In obedience you are a Qadari, in disobedience a Jabri." Some of them restrict it to "the people of the reality" who have witnessed the unity of lordship and been annihilated from all but God; Ibn Taymiyya attributes this to many later Sufis claiming the reality and to some people of knowledge. 2

The view of Abu al-Muzaffar al-Sam'ani

Ibn Taymiyya quotes Abu al-Muzaffar al-Sam'ani: the debate was permissible for Adam and Moses only because they were two great prophets singled out for knowledge of realities and permitted to uncover secrets, which is not the way of creatures commanded to stop at the limits set for them; "So Adam prevailed" does not cancel obedience or drop a duty, but means giving one of two matters preference and putting the decree above the immediate cause; Adam could not have remained in the Garden because of the prior decree that he would leave it, and with this he prevailed over Moses. 2 3 The editors identify al-Sam'ani in a note as Mansur ibn Muhammad al-Marwazi, mufti of Khurasan, born in Merv in 426 and died there in 489 AH. 2

Those who argued from witnessing destiny

Ibn Taymiyya reports that Shaykh Abd al-Qadir used to say that many men, on reaching the decree and destiny, held back, while he "contended with the decrees of the Real by the Real for the Real"; that he exalted command and prohibition and forbade arguing from destiny, as did his shaykh Hammad al-Dabbas. 3 He places in this category the claim that al-Khidr was free of blame because he witnessed the reality of destiny, and the doctrine of the people of union who hold the unity of existence, naming among them al-Tilimsani, Ibn Arabi, al-Qunawi, Ibn Sab'in and Ibn al-Farid. 3

Ibn Taymiyya's answer

He holds that God commanded patience with calamities and seeking forgiveness for faults, citing Ghafir 55, which joins the command to be patient with the command to seek forgiveness. 1 He says that in calamities brought about by God's decree in which no sinner remains to be punished there is nothing but patience and submission to destiny, and that the story of Adam and Moses is of this kind: Moses blamed him for what had befallen him and the offspring, Adam had repented of the sin and been forgiven, and the calamity was decreed; so Adam prevailed over Moses. 4 He extends this to one harmed by the act of people who sinned and then repented – an unbeliever who kills a Muslim and then becomes Muslim, or one who held an innovation by interpretation and then repented – which he counts among the calamities from heaven for which no retaliation is sought. 4

Not yet covered

The Mu'tazili and Sufi views here come from Ibn Taymiyya's report, not from their own books; the commentaries on the hadith by the commentators on the two Sahihs have not yet been added.

Opinions on the question

The question: The meaning of 'So Adam prevailed over Moses', and whether one may argue from destiny to excuse sins.

First opinion · Sunni tradition (the museum's frame) · Sunni (Hanbali)Main reference

The argument concerned the calamity, not the sin

Patience is commanded for calamities and seeking forgiveness for faults; Moses blamed Adam for what befell him and the offspring, Adam had repented and the calamity was decreed, so Adam prevailed; destiny is no excuse for one who disobeys God and His Messenger.

Held by: Ibn Taymiyya

Basis: Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 Dar al-Wafa' vol. 8, scan pp. 615–616 and 632 (printed 183–184 and 200)

More opinions (3)

Sunni tradition (the museum's frame) · Sunni (Shafi'i)Secondary opinion

The debate was allowed to them as two prophets given knowledge of realities; it means giving precedence to the decree

As Ibn Taymiyya reports: Abu al-Muzaffar al-Sam'ani holds that creatures commanded to stop at their limits may not argue so, that 'Adam prevailed' does not cancel obedience or drop duties but gives one of two matters precedence, and that Adam could not remain in the Garden because of the prior decree that he would leave it.

Held by: Abu al-Muzaffar al-Sam'ani Mansur ibn Muhammad al-Tamimi

Basis: Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 vol. 8, scan pp. 616–617

Other viewSecondary opinion

Mu'tazili: the hadith is false, since it makes destiny an excuse for the sinner

As Ibn Taymiyya reports: one party, such as Abu Ali al-Jubba'i of the Mu'tazili imams and others, called the hadith false, since it is known of necessity that making destiny an excuse for the sinner contradicts what the messengers brought.

Held by: al-Jubba'i

Basis: Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 vol. 8, scan pp. 615–616, with the editors' note on al-Jubba'i

Sufi viewSecondary opinion

Whoever witnesses the reality and is annihilated from all but God is free of blame

As Ibn Taymiyya reports: many later Sufis claiming the reality say the hadith concerns one who has witnessed the unity of lordship and sees no agent but God, so that he neither approves good nor condemns evil; he says some people of knowledge also held it, and rejects it.

Basis: Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 vol. 8, scan p. 616

People and things also explored

The people of the qibla and not declaring takfir for sin· Ghayba (occultation)· Hanif (the description of Abraham)· Ilm al-kalam (speculative theology)· The Imamate· Protection (ismah): divine protection, sanctity of life and the marriage bond· Infallibility of the Imams (Twelver Shi'a)· Marvel of a saint (karama)

Sources

  1. Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 , p. 615
  2. Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 , p. 616
  3. Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 , p. 617
  4. Majmu'at al-Fatawa of Ibn Taymiyya, ed. Amir al-Jazzar and Anwar al-Baz, vol. 8 (al-Qadar), Dar al-Wafa', 1st ed., 1418 AH / 1997 , p. 632
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islam.museum contributors. “Did Adam argue from destiny against Moses to excuse his sin?”. islam.museum, https://islam.museum/en/questions/did-adam-argue-from-destiny-to-excuse-his-sin/. CC BY-SA 4.0. Last updated 2026-11-04.

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